Recently I answered one question with a brief and I thought a very simple, objective way, and the questioner emailed me and told me I was going to hell and I had been warned - so of course I just assumed he had asked the question to find Mormons to email and criticize. Over the years we’ve gotten faith-promoting letters and emails from LDS friends and relatives seeking to reconvert us. Boyd, who is the editorial page editor for the Deseret News, introduces his tiresome screed about “Mormon mocking” with a quote from Charles Dickens: “What the Mormons do seems to be excellent, what they say is mostly nonsense.”. Here are a few things I have noticed: Mormons have a tendency to tell people they're IGNORANT (yes, in CAPS like that), that they're downright wrong, and that they should "get the facts straight" before asking questions. For instance: Joseph Smith did, indeed, have more than one wife. Sadly, that wasn’t good enough for Boyd, who accuses Andersen of granting faint praise while “simultaneously snickering” at his beliefs. It would also follow that Boyd has little appreciation for the trials of other faiths. @Jeff Laver — I totally relate. But members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints live all over the world and across the United States. For Heavenly Father’s sake! Your email address will not be published. And oliver caldury fell away from the church because his wife stole some of the book of mormon. Deal with it. The fact that so many Mormons have made such cruel and heartless comments (you only have you check out the latest gem on our FB to see a really nice case study) shows exactly why we might have used pseudonyms. Boasting success in his professional life, he credited his accomplishments to his compassionate approach toward the “less worthy.”, “When I mix with my worldly colleagues,” he explained, “I see them not as they are but as they could be. They must also buy into the whole of their beliefs. Why are Catholics so often leading on life and Mormons so often leading on marriage? So when the music stops, if you haven’t sat down already there just might not be a seat left for you. How do I ask god to "reveal himself" to me? Here are … Your email address will not be published. The issue is, were there ever any proof of Lamanites or Nephites? But I am surprised. I agree COMPLETELY. August 19, 2011 August 18, 2011 Andrew S. Sunday in Outer Blogness: SLC Gay Pride Parade Edition! It would follow that anyone possessing such a narcissistic worldview might take offense at even the slightest criticism. So in a not so indirect why, they are saying that all other churches are wrong. Also embarrassed that after almost seven years since it opened on Broadway, Mormons like Boyd are still whining about the Book of Mormon. If this survey is at all representative of former Mormons, the majority of Mormons who leave do so because they do not believe in the core truth-claims of the Church any more. But I was also both surprised and embarrassed to discover that there are still Mormons out there who insist they are without blemish, while all the rest of us are covered in warts. The “Utah War" of 1857-1858 certainly qualifies as one. His conclusion being that it isn’t enough for “nonmembers” to merely admire the Mormons as people. In addition, the majority of those who disbelieve (53%) now consider themselves Agnostic, Atheist, or Humanist. A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism. Read The Book of Mormon's subtitle, "Another Testament of Jesus Christ." It suggested that members of our Church can sometimes appear very defensive to those who are not members of the Church. It is true there are some out there who give the church a bad name...all we can do is hope the person will not be offended and still want to know more about the church. Required fields are marked *. Like chanson, I get can depressed over this. Trump aims to lift COVID-19 travel limits. X-Mormon of the Year 2016: Jeremy Runnells, X-Mormon of the Year 2013: J. Seth Anderson and Michael Ferguson, X-Mormon of the Year 2010: Monica Bielanko. Some of what people have heard about the temple is actually based in truth (except the obvious things about sex and sacrifices in the Temple). Why do mormons get so defensive when you simply express an opinion with regard to fallacies within their faith and doctrine. Latter-day Saints hold nine of every 10 seats, while making up 60% of the population. Not being happy reflects badly on the family, and the family is EVERYTHING. And you are so right in pointing out that they are offended, even when complimented by outsiders, because those outsiders may not buy into their beliefs. It is a worldview that others reject or don’t understand. This particular piece of research made an interesting observation. Perpetual emigration fund attracted Mormons who had the skills to pay the bills (and hence achieve self sufficiency) Problem: how could an area so barren become prosperous? Some of us get more defensive than others. Answer Save. His unrealistic expectation unmet, Boyd composed this embarrassing screed and then submitted it to a major publication. The last time I attended a Mormon sacrament meeting was around two years ago. What do you think about this saying evolution is debunked and everything is by design meaning a Creator? But the bottom line is this. The central target of Boyd’s venom is another article in The Atlantic: “One Blasphemer’s New Admiration for Mormons,” by Kurt Andersen. Mormons are happy because it is a requirement, particularly for women/wives. “Why are Mormons so defensive about their controversial history?” Answer: Those called “Mormons,” at this day and time, would prefer to be called members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—so there is no need to try to put them on the defensive by currently referring to them as “Mormons,” although once they wanted the world to “Meet the Mormons.” With all of this talk about Mormon “goodness” few mention that Sen. Flake and many other Mormon politicians, who may not like Trump’s abrasiveness, generally support Trump’s agenda to look out for the interests of the rich at the expense of others. One respondent went so far as to say that when Mormons are explaining their beliefs, they speak in terms that suggest they are expecting criticism. God knows we need it. Much of Latter-day Saint religious life stems around the idea of building Zion. Two Short Reads That Are Packed With Information, The Brodie Awards and X-Mormon of the Year, Why Nathaniel Givens Can’t Face Reality (or the real reason John Dehlin is going to be excommunicated), Mitt Romney’s secret double life – porn actor and pederast. I admire you for this statement and think every religion suffers from the above, not just Mormons :-), thats not why...see the Book the Kingdom of the Cults by Martin. These are all pretty good answers. Does the Second Anointing Explain Mormon Support for Trump. Authority, Power and Seeing Red. Nevertheless he finds value in it: “… while I find their religious beliefs as extreme and strange as I do those of most American Protestants, Mormons seem more consistently virtuous and disciplined in the ways they live their lives.”. We are taught to be loving and kind to our neighbors. Look at our name, they'll say, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are so many misconceptions out there and it hurts to hear them all the time. While its true that mormons dont have classes teaching why some various religions may be wrong, mormons have the belief that they are the only ones with the authority to direct Gods Church and His work on the earth today. why does it seem like Catholics and Mormons get so defensive? Impressed with prominent LDS Republicans such as Jeff Flake and Mitt Romney for speaking out against Donald Trump and Roy Moore, Andersen literally gushes over the Mormons’ sincerity and strength of character, attributing these gifts to the quality of the faith’s leadership and cohesive culture: “Latter-day Saints are genuinely old-fashioned, with a strong top-down hierarchical establishment that maintains a powerful communitarianism and enforces exacting norms … In addition, while so much of politicized American Christianity is driven by loathing and condemnation, conforming to the religious scholar George Marsden’s definition—‘a fundamentalist is an evangelical who is angry about something’—Mormons tend to be more cheerfully, industriously focused on their own tribal self-improvement.”. Nevertheless, I was again surprised and embarrassed when I read the recent piece in The Atlantic, “The Ignorance of Mocking Mormonism” by Hal Boyd. If theism is an evolutionary trait, then wouldn’t that mean atheists are devolving? Yet another example of Mormon cluelessness…. (large in stature, had visions while a teenager, etc. When University of Pennsylvania psychologists wanted to find out why Mormons performed so well on well-being metrics, they discovered how connected we are to other people. I agree with Professor Givens, the Church is always playing a defensive game of catch-up. Given Boyd’s narcissistic worldview, I shouldn’t be surprised by this unfounded, self-inflicted belly-aching. But try and explain that and … Well, it’s a mind-numbing experience. Instead, I wanted to use my recent study of the book, "More Wives Than One: Transformation of the Mormon Marriage System, 1840-1910", to help you understand a little more on why Mormons are so defensive of marriage.The fact is we've been here before. We should be sensitive to their feelings, respond the best that we can, and admit that even the most active of Mormons do not know "everything" about God or even about the LDS faith. Tolls had to be paid when travelling though land and the transcontinental railroad passed to … “The Ignorance of Mocking Mormonism” by Hal Boyd. This is how you resurrect a parrot! Awash in self-pity, he goes on to complain: “The Catholics got The Sound of Music; the Jews got Fiddler on the Roof, and, well, the Mormons got South Park on stage.”. HEY APOLOGISTS! And you’d be right. Mormons are people you are without say minorities ( iam not a racial or political lobbiest) The common main stream of society disprove of their faith so they are ridiculed about it on a regular basis. (something that has exactly happened since our identities became public.) What about my sincerely held religious beliefs that women and queers are fully equal to Mormon men? Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. Because we didn’t want to be bullied and harassed. H. L. Mencken wrote, “We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.”. Everyone is defensive... it is the natural human tendency to defend yourself when you are right and you know it. Okay, I had to get in one last jab there. I don’t respect their beliefs. backing there beliefs when people have sincere questions about their faith. If you you want a lesson in Mormon “niceness” try spending a few weeks in Utah while the Mormon dominated state legislature is in session. In fact, it's probably not your usual way to frame the gay-marriage debate. Ok, I will start off by saying that I am LDS. Does the honorable QAnon Shaman typify the average ANTIFA hippy. Why do atheists insist they know more than God Himself? Because of past violent persecutions against them, Mormons can certainly get a little defensive when criticized. Can you blame some of us for feeling like no matter what we say, someone is going to refuse to believe even the simplest declaration? But isolating Mr. Mitchell, 49, and Ms. Barzee, 57, from their religious milieu may not be quite that simple in a state that is home to tens of thousands of polygamists, and whose governor only this week signed legislation imposing tougher penalties on men who take multiple brides.. Temple robes and aprons at the corporate happy hour? Mormons worship Jesus, therefore they are Christian. The principle speaker was a stake high councilman. Temple ceremonies now are not exactly the same as temple ceremonies 150, 100, 50, or even 20 years ago. I seem to remember some years back they created the position “Utah Porn Czar” and then appointed a single LDS woman who had admittedly never had sex. As you say Donna, the LDS are so obviously aware of everyone else’s “warts” while taking extreme offense if anyone suggests their own beauty may only be skin-deep. Sunday in Outer Blogness: The Mormon Moment is Over Edition! Dressed in white and in the Celestial Room after receiving their sacred temple endowments.”. So I went to my Girlfriend's church.. Shes mormon, but shes not like a finatic like the other people shes really chill and doesnt even seem Lds.. but anyways she invited me to go and the adults were very friendly but sunday school was a pain.. Yep. Thus detracting from the efforts of Flake, Romney, and even the well-meaning Andersen. One respondent went so far as to say that when Mormons are explaining their beliefs, they speak in terms that suggest they are expecting criticism. And all of those hours of service Mormons are famous for? In other words, building the church. Gathering MORE nominations for the 2017 Brodie Awards!! Indeed we do, Kevin. At least try to be respectful and understand their point of view. I've heard so many myths and i don't want them to keep spreading and i wish that people would keep their facts straight. Still have questions? Luckily, after 10 months on this site, I am used to a huge variety of responses and have yet to hold back on virtual gummy bears for anyone (except once, I think, in jest) - of course they're free (ha ha). In the July 2010 issue of Ensign, an official magazine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the LDS apostle M. Russell Ballard had an article entitled “Sharing the Gospel with Confidence.”Ballard’s main point is that Mormons should not get defensive when telling others what they believe. People have a view that we as Mormons are excluding of others, that we thing we are always right and everyone else is always wrong about what they think of us... by calling people ignorant and insulting their intelligence, you only propogate this myth. That time is almost all involved in “building the Kingdom” in one way or anther. Here are a few things I have noticed: Mormons have a tendency to tell people they're IGNORANT (yes, in CAPS like that), that they're downright wrong, and that they should "get the facts straight" before asking questions. I admire you for admitting this about your religion. You don’t worship as an individual but as a community. In the 18 to 29 age group, Mormons are evenly divided, with 48% approving and 48% disapproving of Trump. 19 Answers. Former members that don’t demonstrate an angry or defensive attitude or have passed beyond that phase are probably not drawing the attention of our pattern matching abilities. I think we can all be defensive when something we love dearly is being attacked. One respondent went as far as to say that when Mormons are explaining their beliefs, their language is in terms that suggest they are expecting criticism. I mean, if we really want to get into it, Catholicism was the first truly organized Christian religion, so it must be the correct one by your logic, which means all the rest of you are blasphemers for following your Protestant religions. Skewing Dickens’ mildly critical praise into the height of insults, Boyd then quotes similarly “mocking” remarks from other notables. There are many other details as you can imagine. Do most atheists on here believe there should not be freedom of religion? I know Mormons who will not discuss topics unless they are making a conversion and become very irritated so … The Book of Mormon and the Bible are so vastly different there’s no way the story from Joseph Smith is plausible. ... except for "outer darkness" (instead of hell), and the only ones going to outer darkness are apostate Mormons. It seems very possible that many or most former Mormons are not especially angry for most of the time after their transition. Right! We’re a worldwide church, but our numbers are relatively small. Put yourself in that position and you have some reasoning there. This was the most tolerant response, I wish all mormons were. Even when you raise valid points in a clear, calm and concise discussion or debate they take it as an attack and contrary to their supposed 'nice guy' reputation, they attack you personally rather than adequately explain their position. I should have known. You'd think they would want to educate and set a good example to lure people in, but they would rather just insult you and turn their noses up. Embarrassment, misery just starting for Vols, 'Bachelor' frontrunner exits show: 'I just can't do this', 'Rooting hard for you': Trump may end WH tradition, NFL team turned a blind eye toward racial equity rule. In every case, when we’ve politely countered their assertions, they’ve taken huge offense, claiming we didn’t respect their beliefs. If you’re like most people, you’d probably guess that Utah has a higher percentage of LDS people than any other state. There is a lot of defensive action when questions are asked and I understand why because you care so much and you believe so deeply in your faith but that is threatening to some people. When I mentioned to two of my Mormon siblings (two of the genuinely best people on the planet BTW) that I had seen a recent performance of the Book of Mormon and that it was hilarious, they were offended. In other words, if you have insulted someone that asked a "mormon question", YOU are the reason people think we are a cult. Why are Ex-Mormons So Angry (and other questions)? He actually had more than 30. its cuz you dont believe the TRinity or that Jesus is Immortal! It is not something easy to explain, and can be seen by those not familiar with Mormon religion and history as hypocrisy. As though that adorable chorus line of tap dancing missionaries is something akin to an “anti-Mormon” version of Charlie Hebdo. Get your answers by asking now. However, it is not a defensive attitude trying to stay safe at home. I had to, once again, remind myself that my life is offensive to most Mormons and I just need to stay silent most of the time when around them. This particular piece of research made an interesting observation. As a personal matter of interest, I like looking at questions people have on my faith. The Church has seen much development and change through continuing revelation, and many outsiders see this as cultish. I do admit that i can be defensive especially against my parents because i believe it with all my heart and they believe the lies that they hear from other people. I’m feeling a little depressed about the same subject right now…, I confess I’ve never followed the Utah legislature, but I am not at all surprised by Jeff’s description! How do you think about the answers? As a “nonmember,” Andersen is unable to accept the Mormon doctrine. After all, the terms for outsiders and within-the-ranks slackers are still embedded in the Mormon lexicon: “less-actives,” “inactives,” “jack-Mormons,” “liberal Mormons,” “anti-Mormons,” and, of course, “nonmembers.” And when the self-righteous fling these assignations, they seem blissfully unconcerned that they are condemning over 99% of the earth’s population. You’ll see little but condescension, imposing their will on others, and a nice dose of good ol’ mean-spiritedness. With God all things are possible and possible to overcome, so why do so many live in fear based reality? I agree though that we all shouldn't call people ignorant. I have posed some questions to mormons without being insulting and was told that I was ignorant just for asking! Greater public scrutiny can be an opportunity for … It suggested that members of our Church can sometimes appear very defensive to those who are not members of the Church. My siblings are genuinely good people though, and that’s not a compliment I hand out lightly. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Just as we are taught, we should answer patiently and politely and be understanding. Update 5: Mary Redshirt. Why are Mormons so defensive and act like others are the enemy? Part II. Newsweek/Daily Beast reporter Jamie Reno published a provocative interview this week with Sue Emmett, a direct descendent of Brigham Young and a former LDS Church member, that plumbs controversial aspects of Mormon faith and culture, including the status of women in the faith and a tendency among some Mormons to manage the way they speak with non-Mormons about … soldiers girl, i ask why people hate mormons so much, but when people say lies about my own religion that i know are lies, and people eat them up and believe them, yeah im going to get defensive. Only their right to have them. First, aren't they trying to "get the facts straight" by asking their questions? c. 2012 Religion News Service (RNS) Ask Mormons if they are Christian, and their answer often starts with a sigh. But I digress. That's where I'm going to start. Which is all I expect in return. Here is what one non-member said of the responses she has received from self-stated active LDS people: Most of the mormons who responded proved what I already knew, that they are only respectful to their "own kind"--look at the hateful responses accusing me of being in the wrong since its impossible for a mormon to do any wrong (sarcasm). The mental image taking form, my first instinct was to suppress a giggle. Also the part about taking offense over the BoM musical. June 10, 2012 postmormongirl. Ok, I will start off by saying that I am LDS. Relevance. Thank you for some sanity and balance. As a personal matter of interest, I like looking at questions people have on my faith. Trump and the Rise of the Uninformed Expert. April 21, 2007 February 27, 2018 JulieAnn. Who will preside over Trump's 2nd impeachment trial? Most of us should probably "check our sources" on the things we hear before categorically responding that it is false. “One Blasphemer’s New Admiration for Mormons,” by Kurt Andersen. Why does God not do anything about the suffering in the world? Even Mormons probably are not aware of it because the ingrained cultural ideals go so far back. This particular piece of research suggested that members of our Church can sometimes appear very defensive to those who are not members of the Church. LDS dominance may be the most important factor in determining political outcomes in Utah's Legislature. To really take the time to see where someone's coming from rather than getting all hostile and defensive. I am simply asking a question, I am not attacking the church or you. I am LDS also (a recent convert). You can sign in to vote the answer. I agree though that we should not put others down or tell them they are stupid or ignorant. What I’ll add is this. The LDS Church has long ago learned the strategy of being defensive without being offensive, of pushing back against generic anti-Mormonism with appealing snapshots of … Your church teaches there was. Yes, it really is cult-like, if not an outright cult. Evidently he expected Andersen, an atheist, to conclude by bearing his testimony. So if you've never been a Mormon, you're good to go. I went in and they saw my cross and they gave me dirty looks.. And we have a culture that favors early marriage. Actually, most of the anti-mormon sources that people read are from former members, and that at least half of it is based in truth. The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim: Response to claim: "Why did Mormon, Nephi and other "heroes" of the Book of Mormon have so many common traits with Joseph Smith? Proclaim Mormonism as the “one and only true church.” Even though they’ve no intention of joining themselves. Whenever i'm asked about something my first instinct is to not get defensive...it's to answer the question of the asker.. just curious Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign has revived interest in little-known aspects (to non-Mormons, anyway) of Mormon history. The number of self-identifying, practicing Mormons is a fraction of that figure. Biden says no. Sunday in Outer Blogness: It’s not over till it’s over edition!! This is not your typical book review. Iced Earth guitarist Jon Schaffer arrested by FBI, Trump clemency list expected to include Lil Wayne, Portland Trail Blazers star speaks on social justice, MLK's son says dad would be 'hopeful' about Biden, Swimmer's path from Olympics to Capitol riot. Thanks so much for reading! 5 thoughts on “ The Ignorance of Defensive Mormons ” Now that I’ve ranted, I must add that some Mormons are genuinely wonderful people, even if overly defensive. But lets be honest now.